Damn. I can't believe I got dissed for the White Stripes concert. I'm not sure I can hang out anymore. Also, Meg White got fat.

Ok, you were not dissed. I told you if someone backed out the seat was yours. What you should have done is sent me an e-mail that you wanted a ticket when I sent out the "all-staff" e-mail annoucing the show and the pre-sale. You are always on that list and I don't know that you are interested if you do not respond!!

Next, Meg did not get fat. Don't be bitter, it's unbecoming and bad manners.

Tim: If you seriously think Meg White is fat, you are a misogynistic enema, and if you were joking, it wasn't funny--you are still a misogynistic enema. Why don't you go back to defacing models' faces on ads in the subway with your Sharpie to amuse yourself, instead of showing off your asshole to everyone on this blog?

Hot damn slideshows! Looks awesome. Meg is fat? Tim, you are smoking crack. (Whee, I'm a poet!)

Well, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed today. A little sarcasm and some joking around and pow, out-of-control flaming.

I think y'all need to calm down a minute. And what does weight have to do with misogyny? You're conflating the issues. If Jack had put on a double chin, I would have said the same thing. And, if a woman would have said that about Meg, would she still get your red-hot-poker to the eye?

I reject your crticism, in all its lewdness and ugliness as a baseless mischaracterization. Some of us prefer to take the high road, where others do not.

Also, if you want to get down to brass tacks here's a pic of Meg from 2003 http://www.gazette.uwo.ca/2003/November/19/Pics/06A%20White%20Stripes.jpg.

I rest my case.

Oh Joc, I had another idea for you. For the next show you go to, you should rent a lens. I hear it's like $10 to $20 a day, and it'll give you a chance to try out a wide-angle or telephoto, if you end up in the back, or maybe you can rent a fancy flash. Not that these photos don't look awesome (seriously, they do) but it will give you a chance to test-drive what you might want next.

You're not going to squirm out of this one Timmy. Meg is one of the beloved women in rock. Sarcasm or not, no one slanders Meg.

Squirm out of what? I love the White Stripes. I had no idea everyone was so hyper-sensitized. Get over yourselves.

Looks like a great concert! Meg is definitely not fat by the way!

Anyway, thought I'd share this story I found in a Brooklyn newspaper: http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/28/30_28mysterybride.html

It has nothing to do with the White Stripes by the way.

I'm just glad they played Seven Nation Army! I think I might go and buy one of their CDs someday. They have some cool songs! Who knew? Thanks for getting us front row, Joce!

Lauren - I saw that story yesterday...weird. That is a great paper, it's full of funny stories about Brooklyn. Case in point, there was a chock-full-of-nuts cafe where they were selling the garbage donuts from Dunkin.

That was a great story. I saved it to my favorite place. Yet another site to read while I am bored at work.

Jocelyn - you should check their archives. A month or two ago they had a story about a Williamsburger who was going for the world's record for nipple-hair length. Ewww.

Follow up to the Bride story. Awwww it's really sad:

http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/30/28/30_28mysterysolved.html

Tim--first, I apologize for the "lewdness" of my comment. I should not have called you an enema, nor should I have referred to your asshole. You would never use such language, and I should know enough to hold myself up to your lofty standard of propriety and decency.

Second, I am confused. First you say you are being sarcastic about Meg White's being fat, but then you provide pictures to prove your case that Meg White has gone from a size 0 to a size 4 or whatever it is that qualifies as "getting fat" in your mind.

And also, I am not "conflating" your snide comments about a woman's weight with misogyny--I believe I am correctly identifying them as misogynistic and sexist, and here I will explain why, and I will respond to your other questions as well. I will be somewhat generous here and assume that perhaps your comment did not reflect conscious or purposeful hatred towards women on your part. Even so, it was an example of a tendency in our society to scrutinize and criticize women's bodies and appearances while paying relatively little attention to anything else they do. This has the effect of limiting the power of women to achieve the same status of men as intellectuals, artists, political actors and as individuals in general. This means that a comment about Jack White's weight, had you made it, would not have the same implications, because it would not have perpetuated the larger cultural problem of hyper-scrutiny of the physical appearance of women.

I would also like to say that if a woman made this comment, I would indeed have a different reaction--I would be extremely sad and angry that a woman would say something along these lines, because it would mean she had apparently internalized this cultural tendency and directed it, in effect, towards herself. I would certainly not just let it slide.

Sorry, you are not getting off the hook here. Your offhand, "sarcastic" comment represented one of the ways in which women and their actual accomplishments are constantly belittled and denigrated. Through a process of humiliating objectification, our deeper sense of self and our Person-hood are denied. Why do you think so many women spend countless hours worrying about their bodies and image, and why we spend so much money trying to look perfect? Despite all the apparent progress we have achieved towards equal political rights and workplace status (or perhaps because of it, in a form of backlash against women, as many have argued), we continue to live and die by our looks. This strips us of our power and stunts our growth as individuals in a way that the same criticisms directed at men--whose worth and importance as people and status as subjects, not objects, have never been matters of question in industrialized western society-- do not. (Hence the different implications of your comment if it had been directed at Jack White.) Your apparent failure to recognize this shows insensitivity to the nature of sexism in our society.

I will not deny that my personal history with you might have made me especially sensitive to what you said, because it pains me to think that a person I am friends with, and was once romantically involved with, would think it appropriate or funny to toss off the comment "Meg White got fat." If you want to call this "flaming," you can do just that. But I felt compelled to use this public forum to make this statement, and I took a lot of time making sure what I wrote expressed some of my deepest personal beliefs. I do not take what you said lightly, and I hope it is apparent by now that it is not just because I got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning or any other trivial reason.

I have officially decided that Jack White is my new husband. He´s probably one of the best guitar players alive. So hot!! And they really transmit such good energy.

Oh, and what´s this rampage against Tim? It is always funny to say that people are fat ... especially when they're not. Like when I say Jill is really fat and stuff like that...

Gertie, I don't think Tim's comments were as benign as you think, especially given the fact that he produced photographic evidence of Meg White's weight gain. Also, I disagree that it's "always funny to say that people are fat." I don't think I have to provide any more arguments as to why I think this way. If you think it's funny to completely disregard my viewpoint, or that it somehow makes you cool, be my guest. Personally, I am not worried about what anyone thinks about what I said, even if it means they don't want to be friends with me anymore. This is what I believe and that's the end of it.

OK, I'm glad that Tim said it first. But I actually thought that Meg White was kind of fat when I first saw her- and unlike Tim I was actually there. Then again, she was sitting. Standing up she looks tiny.

I, however, have internalised the misogyny and self-loathing inherent in so-called "women's" publications. No one has ever accused me of being functional.

Alexis, step one is to stop reading fashion magazines. They are poisonous. There is hope for you, I know it. It's not like I think I am above all this--do you think I like the way I look? Ha!

Molly, to be honest I did not read your really long post (nor will I, since I'm weary of long posts in blogs), so I don't know you're exact sensitivities about the subject. And yes, I still think joking about people's weight (including mine - I have a huge ass) is funny... not that I want to disregard your viewpoint, but a joke is a joke and that's that.

I should have known better than to use a low-context medium like a blog to try to make a lame sarcastic remark. Actually I was jealous that I didn't go.

Molly - You know first-hand - I hate the objectification and maligning of women, especially over their appearances. I can think of many times where I've expressed as much to you and my other female friends when they say things like "I'm huge" or "I look pregnant". I think it's the worst when women say it about themselves in a serious way. It pisses me off when my friends denegrate themselves because of perceived societal norms. I have always tried to call people on that kind of crap.

Second, my misguided attempt at poor humor had nothing to do with the worth of Meg White as a human being and her musical achievements. As anyone who has heard me speak about her in the past would know, I consider her to be one of the best rock drummers of the day. She could weigh 700lbs and have an arm growing out of her forehead. It just wouldn't matter to me if she still sounded good. If my remarks were interpreted that way, it's unfortunate.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about this.

I hope we can all be friends again.

Tim, it is OK to admit you speak without thinking sometimes, you seem to deny all guilt. I know I speak about women without thinking sometimes, usually while watching women's tennis.

I'm a bit confused how you continue to claim you were kidding about Meg, after you posted links to supposedly thinner pictures of her to prove the truth of your..joke?

And regarding the joke/insult itself, it's simply insane. Fat? WTF? She looks like she's in perfect shape and she is built like an elf.

I refer you to my earlier post:
Second, my misguided attempt at poor humor had nothing to do with the worth of Meg White as a human being and her musical achievements. As anyone who has heard me speak about her in the past would know, I consider her to be one of the best rock drummers of the day. She could weigh 700lbs and have an arm growing out of her forehead. It just wouldn't matter to me if she still sounded good. If my remarks were interpreted that way, it's unfortunate.

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful responses. I am glad we could all use this blog as a place to discuss these issues. Hopefully we have all grown a little bit as a result.

But, Tim, I am not so sure that I "know first-hand" how you "hate the objectification of women." It's nice of you to say that you would still like the White Stripes if Meg White was obese, but it seems like you continue to deny that there is any connection between nasty comments like the one you wrote and the way we value women as people, and the way women value themselves. Note that you say you get mad at women who say negative things about their own appearance because of "perceived societal norms." Perceived? They are real. When I denigrate my own appearance, maybe you get mad because you are seeing first-hand the effect of attitudes and behavior LIKE YOURS on the self-esteem of your (former?) friend, and it disturbs you. But by directing your anger at those of us who suffer as a result of these standards, thinking you just need to "call [us] out on that kind of crap," you are blaming the victim. Take a hard look at what you wrote today and think about why I feel this way. I am calling you out on your crap this time, so deal with it.

One more thing, Tim: I completely disagree with your statement that what you said "had nothing to do with the worth of Meg White as a human being and her musical achievements." I strongly believe it has everything to do with these things, yet you are continuing to argue, simply by assertion, against me. If you don't understand why I think this way, you either (1) didn't read anything I wrote today or (2) you did, and you disagree with me that there is a tendency in our society to fixate on and/or denigrate the physical appearance of women in particular, and this marginalizes them as people. Or maybe (3) you read it, but you didn't get it. I know you aren't stupid, so I think that (3) is pretty much out of the question. Tell me, Tim, do you deny the existence of this whole phenomenon? If so, I would be interested to know why.

I THINK MEG IS SLIGHTLY ROBUST ... LOL

I THINK MEG IS SLIGHTLY ROBUST ... LOL

"(Former) friend?" I didn't think it was as serious as all of that, but if you were that offended, you have my most sincere and public apologies.

Look, as everyone knows I say a lot of crap that can sound ugly. I'm a troublemaker. Always have been, and probably always will be. Sometimes I forget that things I say may carry more weight (no pun intended) with some of us than others. Yes, I can be a bull in a china shop. If that means having to occaisionally apologize for something I say in order to be myself, then that's my only choice.

I wish that none of my female friends, or any women, for that matter, would subscribe to the notion that beauty has anything to do with dress size.

Throughout this long and meandering discussion, I never said anything about the intrinsic worth of being "fat" or "skinny". Nor have I said that I found Meg more or less attractive, or worthy based upon her size. These were conclusions you all drew for yourselves. Just because the larger culture says that "fat" is "bad" doesn't mean that I meant it that way at all. It's both startling and sad for me to realize that the sick media culture we live in has become so imprinted on people that I care about. Hopefully through conversations like these we can understand each other better.

Jocelyn, you forgot to mention that I recorded this concert and its available for download on my site!

And Meg, how can anyone say she's "fat", that's just silly.

My bad. I will get on it right away!

So now you are claiming that I was wrong or prejudiced to assume that "Meg White got fat" wasn't a COMPLIMENT? That's rich, Tim. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK.

OK, I assume that the whole last paragraph Tim wrote was a joke. I must admit that it might have been funny if someone else had said it...but as it stands now, Tim is so full of shit, I don't think he's taken a dump since he was in the fourth grade.

Re: "Tell me, Tim, do you deny the existence of this whole phenomenon? If so, I would be interested to know why."

No I don't deny it exists, but I would encourage you not to fall victim to it, or at least to resist as much as possible. I understand that it affects millions of women, and that in many circumstances men (myself included) are at fault.

There are two ways to approach this problem in my estimation. 1)We can rail against it and the society that perpetuates it. 2)Those who suffer can reject the notion, educate and think for themselves, attempting to resist the judgments of the larger culture. In this case, as with other matters such as race, ethnicity, and mental illness the most effective way is probably a combination of both.

Re:"So now you are claiming that I was wrong or prejudiced to assume that "Meg White got fat" wasn't a COMPLIMENT? That's rich, Tim. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK."

It was just an observation. No compliment/No insult. She just looked different. That's it. Give yourself a break.

hahhahahhahahahhaha

Thanks for the policy recommendations Tim! I will start implementing them ASAP. Oh, wait, I've been implementing them all day! I am glad to hear you approve of my actions.

I am FedExing you a jumbo bottle of Ex-Lax, plus a copy of The Beauty Myth. Right now. I am sorry if there are any people out there who haven't taken a dump since the fourth grade whom I offended. I should not be so insensitive towards those who are Full of Shit. It is no laughing matter.

Re:"So now you are claiming that I was wrong or prejudiced to assume that "Meg White got fat" wasn't a COMPLIMENT? That's rich, Tim. GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK."

It was just an observation. No compliment/No insult. She just looked different. That's it. Give yourself a break.

Wait, you weren't joking? You expected us to believe were sincere when you said "because the larger culture says that "fat" is "bad" doesn't mean that I meant it that way at all. It's both startling and sad for me to realize that the sick media culture we live in has become so imprinted on people that I care about" business? You weren't being sarcastic? OK now that is funny. I think I will send that Ex-Lax over by bicycle messenger instead of FedEx.

nice pics front row bitch. i have never seen so many comments on this blog. the young whippersnappers must love this band. oh shit tim is fat

Tim's right - Meg White is getting fat.

Steve,

Let's compare before and after photos of you from 2003 and 2007?

XOXO,

Joce

Creepy, creepy, creepy Uncle Steve, I know you are just trying to provoke us. I know all about negative attention-getting tactics, as I employed them heavily throughout elementary school myself. But you are LAAAATE! Tim totally beat you to the punch on this one. Find a new way to be appalling. You can do it! It won't be hard! I believe in you.

This is the most entertaining string of comments yet. If only Cupcakes would weigh in... (um, no pun intended). Where did she go anyway?
Seriously though, are Molly and Tim really fighting or is this a joke? I honestly can't tell.

They are having a heated debate.

How can the 2 pounds Meg may or may not have gained be a bigger story than her space tits?!

Seriously everybody, look at that rack

Great pics - thanks for putting them all up!

I came with some friends all the way from Copenhagen, Denmark to see this concert - and I was NOT let down! It was the best kencert I'v ever been to!!

The White Stripes played in Denmark a couple of years ago with a cool danish band The Raveonettes with Sune Wagner :-)

Thanks for a great blogg!!

xxxx